Posted
I have a song with many containers.. The problem, is when I get to some containers a particular instrument will not sound, (no volume, extremely soft).
I'd like to see a command which for instance, might tatke all the volume changes or step functions in the melody containers and condense that down, or be able to highlight several containers and apply a process accross all of them..
The problemwith a situation like this (maybe someone could off a better procedure, is that a lot of the containers need to be more 'unified' in their recornition, or step or rhythm functions. It quickly become impossible to follow and track down a bug or aread that need work.
So far I've been exporting it out and re-importing. Of course now I have a much better view of the continuity of it, but I've given up some of me options.. (for the time being, I make phrase library with all instruments from each version, so I can go back to a previous step.. And I also save the file as a whole. But often I'll want to take the string modifications In version 66 and apply them to the song version with 40 which a much better piano part.
Has anyone found a suitable work around with this.
Thanx..
Tue, 2013-02-26 - 06:38 Permalink
Thanx Juergen that's not what I need although I do use that process some time. If I've split an instrument into 6 containers, and there are also control containers I want to see an overview of what is going on with each instrument.. the piece. It is not easy to grasp what is going on, I often feel not in control of SFP, or that it takes much individual tweaking of parameters to get the desired result..
As to the confusion of what is happening in a piece, I often export it, and then re-import in as a linear file.. I of course loose a lot SFP processes, but I can then get a clearer idea of what is exactly happening with each instrument in the pieces.. For instance sometime volume changes sneak in, and I'm constantly trying to maintain a balance of 8 or more instruments, between volume, and expression, and velocity, I have a lot of unwanted notes popping out too loud. It takes a bit of time to 'massage' the piece into shape.. Tyros 4 like other hardware and Virtual instruments, sometimes makes use of velocity of what sample to play, of course if you change the instrument patch that might want a different velocity curve all your work goes out the window.
I keep back up qualities so I can return to or pull in previous containers and have complete access to all of SFP.
Tue, 2013-02-26 - 10:36 Permalink
Control ...
I want to see an overview of what is going on with each instrument.. the piece. It is not easy to grasp what is going on, I often feel not in control of SFP, or that it takes much individual tweaking of parameters to get the desired result..
Select that container and look at the green line for a choosen parameter ..select all containers for the same parameter
For instance the volume ..you can see if all green lines are connected with the neighbour container.
A control container ? ... with the knob: display selected parameters instead of always showing figures you can see the control vectorline ( draw ) for that container if you have assigned there a parameter.
The hypereditor is for velocity, length and Step parameter ( so if you select the : display parameter knob and select one of the hypereditor parameters it is showing the vectorline for that parameter
There was no multiparameter edit possible yet in Synfire ?
Volume can be adjusted in the mixer too, velocity in he hypereditor and expression i don't know
Tue, 2013-02-26 - 11:01 Permalink
Example for BassA
Say you want to have a volume for all these BassA container ?
Select the BassA container ..open the mixer tab and look at the bassA sound mixerstrip
Select the volume parameter on the top of th emixerstrip -> a slider is now present too
Choose a volume value and snapshot this for the first BassA container ..than go to the second BassA container and select this container, check the value if it is the same value ( lessor more? )as the first container..snapshot this.
With the fader positions in the mixer you can get a visual idea how you have organised the soundvolume.
To see the faderposions of all BassA containers in one overview is not possible , because it is the same sound all the time and thus it have one mixerstrip.
But you can see the value(s) if the inspector for parameter is selected and all BassA soundvalues can be seen
To be sure that all instrument have the right soundvolume assigned in the rootcontainer when you start with the arrangement..check this in the mixer first ( make a snapshot )in the parameter inspector ( assign a volume ).
Tue, 2013-02-26 - 17:31 Permalink
Export and re import should not be needed. You should avoid that because it is very lossy.
Very low volume can be caused by Volume parameter or extremely low velocity. Have you tried the "Trace Parameters" feature (View menu)? That will show you all containers where the currently selected parameter is set for the current instrument. You can visit these containers and drag the parameter to the root container, or delete it.
A global volume parameter is useful only for setting up an initial mix. If you put continous volume automation in the root container, it will no longer match your music when you move containers around.
Tue, 2013-02-26 - 18:44 Permalink
Thanks, yes I am aware of trace parameters, but the thought of dragging volume to root container had not occured to me. But this again only strengthens my point - I want to get an accurate overview of everything SFP is doing to an arrangement.. I want to SEE the effect of step, rhythm, variation, and other parameters.. I can only imagine, this would be very difficult or impossible in the current version. But since SFP compiles the song first.. I'd like to SEE the details on a piano roll, or Score window. You can make use of trace parameters, and have a feature button for velocity, hit that button and notes will be displayed in certain colors to show the velocity.
I still have issues with volume.. When I import a new MIDI file, the volume is up all the way for one instrument, yet I do not hear it, unless I 'nudge' the volume parameter..
I would like to see:
If you set SFP to measure 0, you should be able to set basic volumes (and expression) volumes off all instruments. And these would carry thru unless you made individual changes in containers as the song progresses. As soon as you get more than 10 tracks of SFP going, it becomes quite a job to keep a nice balance of instruments, you want smooth fade ups/downs of some instruments, so you can highlight other sounds..
Where does SFP put the volume commands when you make a change, at the beginning of that container?, or the instant you change it while song is playing?
If you're writing 4 part inventions SFP is OK.. But if you want sophisticated layering of sounds, (doubling on other instrument) octaves, a higher or lower harmony that's softer), it becomes a job.
Tue, 2013-02-26 - 20:57 Permalink
Where does SFP put the volume commands when you make a change
At the beginning of the current container.
When I import a new MIDI file, the volume is up all the way for one instrument, yet I do not hear it, unless I 'nudge' the volume parameter
Your synth hardware maintains its own state of volume that is unknown to Synfire. Only after you nudged the fader, a value will be set for the parameter and sent to the synth. Synfire does not transmit volume CC unless you set a value.
If you set SFP to measure 0, you should be able to set basic volumes (and expression) volumes off all instruments.
You can easily do so. Just select the root container. That will insert values at measure 0. And it is a good idea to do so (see above).
If you're writing 4 part inventions SFP is OK.. But if you want sophisticated layering of sounds, (doubling on other instrument) octaves, a higher or lower harmony that's softer), it becomes a job.
The one thing is composition, the other is production ;-) At this basic level however, I agree it should be easily doable with Synfire and not require a DAW. We are working on better ways to improve the overview of a complete score.
Tue, 2013-02-26 - 22:12 Permalink
This is not clear in Synfire
@mark styles :Where does SFP put the volume commands when you make a change
answer @supertonic : At the beginning of the current container.
There is no visual sign for the volume parameter ( it starts with adding a point only after first changing the slider ) in the arrangement view if you go to the parameter display
The default value is 90 ( for volume) in the parameter inspector ( this volume value is for the whole phrase in the econtainer ?
Better is to add in green the default value at the start of the container ?
Wed, 2013-02-27 - 04:32 Permalink
There is a gremlin somewhere, cause I do set the volume of the hardware instrument. Even if I set it at 127, the instrument will not sound until I tweak the parameter in SFP. I'll do a test tomorrow, and see if I can isolate it down..
Wed, 2013-02-27 - 05:00 Permalink
When I create a song, I have certain ideas in mind. It is much cleaner and easier for me to do them with Logic and Tyros 4. When I do start a piece in SFP. I export it over to Logic, hand play some parts, add some voices, etc. I sometimes go back to original SFP piece (with multiple containers) etc, and add more stuff..
Other times I export the Logic file back into SFP as a linear track, cause I already have the basic foundation of song done.. I may want to create a part in SFP that is technically beyond my playing, hence I go back and forth.. As I build a song with its parts and sounds, that inspires new ideas, and I recreate from there.. I.E. A new bass part, might suggest I have to recreate a less busy guitar part to work well..
Often I get to Logic and start chopping sections, double chorus, half of intro transposed as a B section etc.. I have no choice but to go back to SFP and use it in linear mode.. I assume as more people start using SFP they will employ a similar idea mostly because it's easier..
Without all the background knowledge and inner workings of SFP, a lot of stuff is 'happy accidents'. For me, it's quicker to use my process.. I've already spent a VAST amount of time on SFP, and to be truthful, feel like that I still have much to learn..
Time and sessions are limited, and now I use the fastest means possible to reach my goals.. I don't have time to play with the endless amount of variations one could invest in SFP to discover it's innermost secrets.. Unless they were very clearly documented.
Wed, 2013-02-27 - 08:36 Permalink
Better is to add in green the default value at the start of the container ?
You can do so already. Edit the custom CCs of your device description or sound, enable Volume and enter a value you want to use as a default. This value will be added to the MIDI output.
This is the way to insert any default CC value into the MIDI output stream.