Posted
Guys I love this software. I'm new just bought my copy about 2 days ago. With that said, taking on this software is what I would compare to drinking from a fire hose. Not being critical here, but coming from knowing nothing about this software the comments are coming from my experience with it so far...
Personally I would love to see a more professional video training series, starting from the premise that the user knows nothing about synfire pro to becoming a master synfire pro song writer using this awesome tool. The video content I've seen so far just isn't doing it for me, it assumes you know things that at this point I don't and since there is no human voice explaining anything, geez. Really..., come on guys you build a tool this great and can't make a decent beginner training series.
As a suggestion, I've reached out to this company requesting them to make a training series for synfire pro. They were very receptive to it, but need more users to request it.
I'm asumming since Cognitone has not made one by now there not going to, so lets get a professional video training organization involved. If you would like to see this company create video training series for Synfire Pro please send a request here: (http://www.lynda.com/support/contact.aspx)
Thanks from a frustrated user.. just kidding .. more like a deer caught in the headlights user..
Best Regards
Wed, 2015-07-15 - 00:49 Permalink
I agree with you that there's a lack of professional tutorial videos. I've been a user for a few years now but I reckon I still only use Synfire to less than half its potential.
Personally, I prefer groove3.com because they offer more of what I'm interested in, and I'm already a subscriber! I asked them about Synfire a couple of years ago and they said they were aware of it and would monitor customer requests. I guess there weren't very many!
Cognitone seem to be expending a lot of time on promotional videos at the moment, rather than tutorial videos. I'm not a business man so I assume they know what they're doing but I think sometimes tutorials can sell a product better because users want to see what it's actually capable of, rather than what it might be able to do.
I have seen many comments on groove3 from people who've bought a product based on one of their tutorials. Indeed, it applied to me when I watched their Ozone 5 tutorial. I bought it straight after watching it!
Perhaps it's time for Cognitone to hire someone, train them up, and produce comprehensive tutorial videos. I expect these could run for very many hours and would be very expensive to produce. But I would have thought the expense could be recouped with just a few more sales?
Wed, 2015-07-15 - 04:16 Permalink
Totally agree. If they would spam YouTube with a bunch of professional made videos I would have bought this product years ago. I bought ozone 6 advanced because of the training video that company put up on YouTube. I can't tell you how many other products I've bought because I saw a company training video on YouTube.
yea advertisement is needed, but to really pull in a customer show them what it can do, in a understandable way, professional made training video. Also videos like that help us new customer get started the right way and reduce the frustration of redo factor, doing something over and over again to learn how to do it. :)
Wed, 2015-07-15 - 16:12 Permalink
Thanks for the links and suggestions. The challange is: only an already trained person can train others. That's a hen-and-egg problem. Also, Synfire doesn't attract an audience of millions of people, like Final Cut Pro, Photoshop and the like.
The other day I saw a professional training video for Final Cut Pro X. Two guys were standing at a desk with a laptop, talking, making jokes, one asking questions, the other answering them, showing things on screen. It was a nice experience. I instantly thought: This is the way we need to go!
The entire 6 minutes or so were spent on a single task: How to change a particular setting, I don't remember exactly. It was about a single aspect of a specific feature only. That's what made it so relaxed and entertaining.
However, if Synfire was taught at this comfortable pace, it'd take some 200 videos.
Final Cut has a huge advantage in this regard: All users are essentially doing the same thing with that software: Arranging clips they already have. Noone expects Apple to tell them how to tell a story, script a movie, do the lighting, etc. It's not about making a movie, it's about "producing" the movie you already have. Very much like what a DAW does for music.
The learning curve with Synfire is steep, because it revolves around a creative process that starts out of thin air and is different for every individual person. It blurs the line between creativity and technology. Users less often ask how to do something, they more often ask what to do in the first place. They are unclear about what suggestions and decisions the software can make and what's still their own responsibility. Let alone which decisions needed to be made altogether.
I think, before we can start with training videos that focus on particular features and tasks, it is inevitable to have something that gives an idea of the grand scheme of things, plus a few basics. After that, videos on all the features and tasks should come easy.
That said, communication is a top priority this year.
Wed, 2015-07-15 - 18:19 Permalink
Thanks for taking the time to respond, it’s much appreciated. Your right it’s a daunting task jumping into Synfire Pro not knowing anything about it. It’s like being thrown into the deep end of the pool without having been given the basics on how to swim. Do you drown or learn to tread water really, really fast. And not to mention the bad habits user’s pick-up being self-taught.
Well I hope you guys take the time this year and focus on giving “new users” the training tools for making their transition to productive Synfire Pro Citizens a lot easier. For me I want to learn the in’s and outs of this fantastic tool. It’s a paradigm shift for me in the way I create musical ideas and I want to embrace it with all the skill and knowledge I can acquire.
Thank you for creating this awesome tool. But most of all “Thank You” for taking the time this upcoming year to give me the training tools I need to leverage this tool to its maximum potential.
Best Regards
Paul Bright
“Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.”
Wed, 2015-07-15 - 21:09 Permalink
It is not that complicated, but the manual gives not the core ideas presented userfriendly..it is written in a programmer style
One video with main features to get a idea were to start and have a oversight.
You can start with a rootcontainer where you can add instruments and draw(pencil tool) a phrase..these days with the racks it is much more userfriendly then it was ever before.
You can also import a midi file into the rootcontainer where the constructed phrase are extracted from the midi
You can also record you own phrase in the rootcontainer with a midi controllerkeyboard
So 3 ways to get phrases...there are more.. from a existing phrase library you can construct a new phrase or extract a phrase out a existing arrangement ( a instrument track ) .
For a songbuilding you can use a phrase library too
The rootcontainer is the top container ..notice the difference between a container you can add under this rootcontainer and the rootcontainer. ( you can't move a rootcontainer )
The rootcontainer is the start of making a song
Wed, 2015-07-15 - 21:25 Permalink
Paul,
one other thing I encourage you to do is look at the forum section for workshops. This idea has gone a bit quiet of late but I'm hopeful it picks up more maybe as the weather gets worse. Not sure which country you are in, but the idea is to get users together to share ideas and effectively learn from each other with some help from the cognitive people. Put you name down under the relevant section...which will help swell numbers..
Fri, 2015-07-17 - 20:39 Permalink
Fantastic Andre!
This is my favorite creative tool bar none. Yet, there is so much I am still trying to learn to do with it! i agree totally with all of your comments and look forward to whatever you produce!
Thank you again, and again for Synfire Pro
you and it are the best!!
Sat, 2015-07-18 - 01:52 Permalink
Well I don't know.
I would start with streamlining basic things like for example getting a compilation
of all available keyboardshortcuts somehwhere out there and
superbasic stuff like that before I would
think about paying for professional training material.
For example: Synfire is the only app I know out of
every-computer-program-I-have-ever-used-ever
that has *no* list of keyboardshortcuts nowhere.
How many years now? Seriously?
Just some are mentioned here and there all over the place.
No offense, but that in itself is pretty ridiculous.
Now probably the usual diehard fanboys will jump in
again and find another excuse for stuff like this but to me
oversights like this are just not accetable. Ever.
This is (supposed to be) a pro-level app @ topdollar price. End of discussion.
(Besides that: Synfire has super bad keyboardshortcut implementation anyways.
Mouse-Miles hooray every day all day. Click and drag galore for hours
until my hand hurts, my ankle *and* my clicky-clickedy-click finger.
Hmmm. Not very "workflow" orientated in my book.
And I can go in Logic, Pro Tools and DP for days without
having any issues at all. Hmmm. And lets not talk about strong keyboard
and macro-action driven DAWS like Metro, Reaper or especially Renoise or I start crying.
Now think about that for a minute before
everybody is talking work"FLOW " all day, lol... )
tL.
Sat, 2015-07-18 - 12:15 Permalink
sorry guys for the tone, had a bad day yesterday.
By the way: why are already all the old videos down,
when there are basically no new ones?
Especially the ones with key-modulation were
some I always like to refer to from time to time?
The new ones are just showcases in my eyes,
nothing really helpful here.
Sat, 2015-07-18 - 22:47 Permalink
No doubt, the entire keyboard system needs a full rewrite. This is already in the pipeline. I wish we could move forward faster, but there are literally hundreds of tasks pending and each day has only so many hours.
If you have suggestions as to what keyboard commands you would like to see that are NOT yet available in a menu, feel free to send an email to support at cognitone dot com. We appreciate your input!
Also, I hope, the new click board should reduce much of the need for using menus for figure editing.
A new website is currently in the making, easier to read and navigate and with a much better search function. That's why the videos are being reorganized.
The recent videos are indeed showcases targeting new site visitors (successfully, by the way). The coming tutorials will be shorter, focussing on individual tasks only. This will help getting them finished ealier.
Sat, 2015-07-18 - 23:54 Permalink
Understood. Will take that oportunity for sure.
I'll send you over a screenshot tomorrow, my bet is that
you will see immediatly what I mean.
Also I agree that the clickboard is a nice additon... Especially for people starting out with SF...
But please do not forget the power users that know where everything can be found
and know a lot of shortcuts already and just need ways to get work done faster. ;)
Thanks,
tL.
Thu, 2015-07-23 - 13:34 Permalink
I work on my music site and I planned a Synfire section.
I love this software.
Perhaps there will also videos.
This will be in French;-)
Mon, 2015-11-23 - 10:30 Permalink
I wish it was that simple. Even in the best and most produtive case, composing a song from scratch takes a few hours. Cutting that down to 10 minutes is an extreme challenge, without leaving huge confusing gaps and introducing sudden jumps to an entirely different song (a song can reshape dramatically within a short time).
But most of all, endless listening to the ever same snippets of music, the jerky, unscripted mouse movement, constant back and forth between tabs and windows, without knowing the intent of the user, is so stressful and confusing that nobody wants to watch it.
For a screencast, smooth scripted content is mandatory. It needs to focus around a feature, topic or interest. Mouse movements must be slow and straight. Repeated playing of the same music is to be avoided (costs tons of time), etc. Some 5 minutes of tutorials can take up to 3 days to make.
However, this is not to say there will be no new videos and tuts. A few new ones have already been published and more are coming soon.
As for arranging a song, what's wrong with "Arranging a Song 1" and 2?
Wed, 2015-12-23 - 22:37 Permalink
I will probably do a tutorial series on Synfire in the near future, along the lines of what I have done for "How to Make Freeform" and "How to Make Chillout" on YouTube. I end up with about 2 hours worth of recorded material split into smaller digestable bites of about 10 minutes.
My process for this is to first make a track start to finish, without recording. Then, I remake the track while recording and cut out all the fiddling with knobs and guesswork and just crank it out. I agree with Andre though, this loses some of the spontaneity of doing a live podcast, but it cuts down the amount of footage tremendously. Most people won't watch you for five hours to complete something, but two hours is much more reasonable.
The other weakness with my tutorials is that sometimes I don't know every facet of what I am working with. I'm by no means a master of any particular thing, I just feel that I'm good enough to teach others (those who can do, those who can't teach!). So, I want to take my time with Synfire and make sure I understand it well enough before I start any recording.