Posted
Is it possible that you cannot copy a section? I can't seem to find out how to do this.
For a typical intro, verse, chorus, verse, chorus, verse, etc., I want to be able to duplicate the section later in the time line.
If this is an issue of only permitting one section with the same name, couldn't the copy/ duplicate function permit adding a letter or text to the existing name? For example, 'A' becomes 'A1' when copied?
I hope I am just missing how to do this.
Prado
Sat, 2012-10-20 - 23:34 Permalink
Hmmm ... not sure what you mean.
I mean I have created a section with instruments and phrases and I want to copy everything contained in the section to a new section. If there is a copy command from a menu that will do this ... select all > copy > paste, that is what I want.
I don't think you pull new/ different instruments into another section as each song can only have the total of 8 in HN2.
Prado
Sun, 2012-10-21 - 00:32 Permalink
I'm waiting for Supertonic or Andre to answer ... unless someone else knows for sure.
Yes, I know you can add a section ... but if you have changed phrases ... interpretation, variation, rhythm, etcs, muted instruments, set up different volume levels in a verse from a chorus, change phrase lengths, cleared or copied phrase sections, etc., etc. in a section, then I want to copy everything to a new section so the verse stays the verse, not just the instruments and chords in the progression.
Then I can make more subtle variations between the first and second verse or first and second chorus ... but still maintain their basic identiry in the song.
Prado
Sun, 2012-10-21 - 00:56 Permalink
Try to study the examples enclosed with HN2 ..there you can see how you get variations in your songsections
You can try to reconstruct it and to look what parameters are changed, because the parameter lit is burning or not
If you chance a parameter (make a snapshot) in a copy section it is lit
Note: this chancing of parameter is going to be the same idea in SFE , but on a higher level with inheritance...container logic ..
Sun, 2012-10-21 - 01:18 Permalink
I mean I have created a section with instruments and phrases and I want to copy everything contained in the section to a new section.
Jan is right, you need to copy the phrases instrument by instrument to the new section by drag and drop. Hold down the Ctrl key and drag the instrument labels one by one to the new section (see enclosed picture). Btw: Dragging without the Ctrl key moves the phrases (instead of copying them).
Sun, 2012-10-21 - 02:18 Permalink
Wow! I went to reply and accidentally hit ignore ... gotta figure out how to undo that, Juergen.
Thanks for taking the time with the illustration. I now get what Jan was trying to say.
So the answer is that you cannot copy a whole section, but you can copy the instrument with all it's tweaks.
That will have to do ...
I think I'll see what happens when you select all the instruments and try to drag them. Wonder if that might work.
Thanks.
Prado
Sun, 2012-10-21 - 09:55 Permalink
Yes, HN2 has his own complexity..once you get the hang on it, of dragging and dropping parameter labels /instruments labels it becomes more trusted.
Interesting this all, because HN2 is only one (root)container what is divided in songsections ( lineair based )
Compare this with SFE ..
I try to make the same song examples in SFE as exercise and than see what happens during this composing ( workflow )
Note: Cubase can import Yamaha styles for using as a basis sketch..all with markers for intro , ending, main A, Main B, Fill, etc ( for the library use)
Where are the 2 original example song to find from HN2 in SFE ?
Sun, 2012-10-21 - 10:08 Permalink
I forgot to mention that you also have to copy the global parameters to the new section (particularly the harmony parameter) if you want to have an exact copy of the section.
I think I'll see what happens when you select all the instruments and try to drag them. Wonder if that might work.
No, that does not work.
Sun, 2012-10-21 - 14:01 Permalink
Synfire has container aliases for what you want to do.
With HN2, dropping all phrases to the new section with ALT (or Copy) key pressed is the solution. Considering a maximum of 8 instruments, an extra menu item for this operation would be more confusing than helpful.
Sun, 2012-10-21 - 18:10 Permalink
@Supertonic: Considering a maximum of 8 instruments, an extra menu item for this operation would be more confusing than helpful.
If you said that there was a problem with the code as it exists making doing this extremely difficulty, that would be disappointing but acceptable. But to call a feature found in virtually every software program "more confusing than helpful" is evasive and demeaning to your customers.
How in a very complicated program with a steep learning curve a garden variety function like 'copy' could be either confusing or unhelpful is incomprehensible to me.
I am surprised you would make such a statement.
Prado
Sun, 2012-10-21 - 18:38 Permalink
Adding extra menu items like "Copy Phrases of All Instruments" and "Paste Phrases to All Instruments" would not be helpful. Bloating the user interface with single-purpose macros like that, only to save a few drag & drop copies, make the software more complicated.
Command-C / Command-V does almost the same, except that you get a new section inserted.
Sun, 2012-10-21 - 19:48 Permalink
Look, you are apparently not going to do anything about it and I'm not going to be disagreeable, though I will be frank.
I do think lack of section copy reflects a misjudged work flow priority that in small but accumulating ways contributes to the perception that the program is "too difficult" to learn for many potential customers. It won't matter for me, because 'I'm in' and appreciate the program ... but for others, who knows?
As far as 'bloated' goes, there is a whole lot of room in the context menu when you right click on any section in the time line above the main song window. If one more item in a menu takes that menu to "bloated," then one would wonder about the overall menu organization to that point in time.
I think it is a serious misjudgment in development that a software program promoted as for "song writers" is unable to fully duplicate a verse or chorus in the conventional and intuitive manner of virtually all other types of software programs from music to word processors to spread sheets.
In Cubase I can copy an entire project to a new project with all instruments, plugins, routing, midi and audio tracks, etc., in place. That seems a bit more daunting to me.
Prado
Sun, 2012-10-21 - 20:37 Permalink
I think it is a serious misjudgment in development that a software program promoted as for "song writers" is unable to fully duplicate a verse or chorus in the conventional and intuitive manner of virtually all other types of software programs from music to word processors to spread sheets.
HN2 is a retarded child of the Synfire family because of the marketing strategy from conitone in my opinion.
HN2 act smore as a trainer for SFP/E .. i hope that this not going to be same for SFE with his limitations..haha
SFE is a lot more that HN2 and also his price.. but it is worth.
Sun, 2012-10-21 - 21:38 Permalink
Or simple copy & paste. Did you try that?
I will as soon as I get up and running today. I understand the system commands ... but are you referring to 'Select All' in the instrument window ( Cntrl + A in Windows)?
Someone said, I think Juergen, that you need to pull the global setting in the instrument window. That will also also be selected, correct?
I think I misunderstood before ... or maybe now. Are you saying this will work or that I should try it to see if it will work?
Anyway, I'll try it and get back.
Thanks
Prado
Sun, 2012-10-21 - 22:00 Permalink
System commands do not appear to work. Command/ Cntrl + A selects nothing in the song window. If I Command/ Control + Left Click all the instruments to select them, when I then copy and paste to another section, nothing seems to be caried over even though as you go to the new section is shows all the instruments still selected.
I'll have to go the drag 8 instruments one at a time and up to 5 Global parameters one at a time for a total of up to 13 steps to accomplish what should be able to be done in one operation.
Prado
Sun, 2012-10-21 - 22:52 Permalink
You can copy the entire section:
- Click on a section + Ctrl-C
- Ctrl-V inserts a copy of the section
You can then move the copied section to the desired place using the arrow keys.
Sun, 2012-10-21 - 23:19 Permalink
Got it!
Thankyou, Supa T,, for the concise and succinct directions.
Before it was unclear to me whether this was a 'copy elements into' or a 'duplication.' I think it is properly understood as a 'duplication,' which then can be rearranged in the timeline. The concept 'copy' was part of why I had difficulty understanding.
Anyway, whatever its name, I am glad to now know how to do it.
Prado
Sun, 2012-10-21 - 23:29 Permalink
It works great .. unfortanely i could not give this information to @Prado my mind was cluttered with dragging and dropping of phrases and parameters( vectors).. he must now in seventh heaven with this!
Also to use for containers in SFE..thanks
Strange it is a very common command to perform..that i not came up the idea to test it out ?.. i was blocked i suppose
Thu, 2012-10-25 - 06:50 Permalink
This is not working as expected.
I can copy and paste one section ... but the buffer/ clipboard doesn't appear to release that section. If I click and highlight another section, copy it and paste ... the first section I originally pasted and copied keeps getting pasted instead of the updated one.
Is this a bug?
Update: OK, I see what is happening. I took a 16 bar section and copy/ pasted it. I shrunk the pasted section to 8 bars and renamed it. When I then copied that, i expected to be copying an 8 bar section with the new name ... instead it copied as the original 16 bar section with the original name. I guess the 'copies' ... or better ... 'duplicates' are simply aliases of the original section and not new sections.
Second problem. If I drag an instrument into a different section, it drags the phrase and wipes out the other phrase in the section I am dragging to. I want to just move all the parameters of the instrument in the channel strip and leave the harmony behind.
Since there is no way to calibrate velocity levels or pan position, the only way to do this is to copy that channel strip. There should be a lasso drag function to capture any or as many parts of the parameters and channel settings and copy that to the same instrument in a different section.
Prado
Thu, 2012-10-25 - 14:53 Permalink
You are right, the copy is not unlinked from its original. This is a bug. Will be fixed with next update.
BTW: You can drag-copy individual parameters to other sections. Dragging multiple parameters at once does not work (yet).