Posted
Now i try a setup with a "merged" Drone : it stays grey when i use load and the editor knob is also not working ?
For now is this a 32 bit setup ..only one setup from the WIKI from @Juergen i can do the other one for the vst expressionmap with two direction of midi is not working yet.
The setup i tried to reconstruct on the WIKI, is also not working yet.
Three Drone setups for Cubase and even four for that one from @prado if this one is what i want too, try to master.
Studied several times 3 video for 3 DAWS about Drone relocating, but it conflict with other tutorials from @juergen ..
Than a personal problem here with someone, what is not good, but this is was one time affair.
I am focussed on Cubase and Synfire, but even the Basic Drone relocate setup is not possible
Can it be worser?
Wed, 2012-10-31 - 10:27 Permalink
The purpose was to avoid a complicated setup.
Relocating a VSTifrom SFP/E has to be a basic task to deal with in Synfire, but in practice it is not going smooth for me with Cubase 6.5..what caused this..where in the setup chain it goes wrong?
Interesting..perhaps you can add this setup to the WIKI too ?
I removed two WIKI articles ( what are not by me written , one is about Harmony navigator and Vsti and the other about using expressionmap with Synfire) but i will replace them back ( if i am can find it back in my post ), because new users can benefit from this for Cubase.
Note: i don't know if the added WIKi can stand the required quality for Cognitone ?.. i think it is ok, because they are made by our well trusted author @juergen.
Wed, 2012-10-31 - 13:19 Permalink
..only one setup from the WIKI from @Juergen i can do the other one for the vst expressionmap with two direction of midi is not working yet.
Welcome back janamdo, I'm pleased that you have calmed down ;)
It would be helpful, if you could describe more in detail at which point exactly you get stuck. Are the drones working for you? Do they produce sound, if you play an arrangement at Synfire? If they work, then the next step would be to check if your setting for the expression map at Cubase is set up correctly. Draw some notes and articulations into the MIDI track at Cubase. Do the arcticulations switch correctly then? Is the Rewire synchronisation between Cubase and Synfire working correctly?
Wed, 2012-10-31 - 15:15 Permalink
yes, it is not a state of mind i like and it went in a wrong direction..but a coin has two sides and assured myself that it never will happen again on this forum and stay relaxed. Cognitone is doing their outmost effort, to inform their customers about their products and i am one of them. :)
First i like to get the relocate ( export Vsti to DAW ) procedure working for Cubase 6.5 and Halion 4, because it is default setup.
I use the 32 bit engine in SFE ( because the asio multiclient driver is only for 32 bit as it seems ) and than also forced by this, to use Cubase 32 bit.
Further i use Halion 4 ( but Halion Sonic Se will also work than, included in Cubase )
Synfire is master and Cubase slave and i start/quit SFE first.
For the Vsti in SFE i use a GM device setup as start to make it easier .
So let me try this setup with the Halion SE VSti included in Cubase, than you can try this out also @juergen
Paths for Vsti and drone must be correct to.
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No ..the Halion Sonic is not going to work in SFE, so i choose Halion 4
I try this out only for one instrument that is enough
1 startup SFE - and open after this Cubase
2 go further with drones in Cubase ( rewire option in SFE is on for 2 options ticked ) ( when i start the transport in SFE it is synchronized working in Cubase )
Add the complete drone ( with midi channel assigning) in the VSti rack (F11)--> this is unknow part further , becuase i don't know what else to do to prepare the Drone for the VSTi he got later from SFE
( A transportmodule must be loaded into the track on the input routing ? ...
Let it be this ( alone loading the Drone ) .. i tried out , but than there is no export of the Vsti to Cubase possible it seems.
Wed, 2012-10-31 - 16:01 Permalink
Hi janamdo, sorry in advance if this is what you are doing and bare with me if I use the wrong words but I don't have cubase....
I'm assuming you have halion running in the engine and playing a sequence within synfire?
Add a drone to a track in cubase... Does this load ok? In ableton you have to do this on a midi track, probably the same in cubase...
Back in synfire click on the instrument sequence you want to move. Click or right click ( sorry cant remember which) on one of the little snowflake type buttons in the instrument tab on the right. You are looking for a menu option for relocate... Click relocate.
You should then be given a list of possible places you can move the vst to, this should include the drone in cubase, it will list it as empty. Select that one and it should then load within the vst drone in cubase.
Please note there are some plugins that can only be loaded once, I have a virus ti synth which comes with a vst/au control device. If I have this is the engine then try to relocate it, the version that loads in the drone complains there is already a version running. I have no idea if this is the problem you are having but if it is you won't be able to load in twice in the engine or cubase which is a way to test it.
Hope this helps, if you post answers to some of my questions it will help me and others more used to cubase solve this riddle.
One other thing, not sure if this will affect you or not, but if the relocate option is there but doesn't work, it might be worth turning off the firewall and restarting cubase and synfire and then try again.
Wed, 2012-10-31 - 20:31 Permalink
Hi blacksun,
Question : do you use a mac computer ?
I'm assuming you have halion running in the engine and playing a sequence within synfire?
Right now ..Halion 4 as plugin and a GM device setup used.
Nice feature in SFP/E is that i can use a GM sound from a list, and i pick one ..the sequence is playing
Add a drone to a track in cubase... Does this load ok? In ableton you have to do this on a midi track, probably the same in cubase...
i did add a Drone ( F11 in Cubase) .. message : ( do you want to create a MIDi track assigned to plugin Cognitone : Yes ...it is a MIDI track Drone
Does this load ok? In ableton you have to do this on a midi track, probably the same in cubase...
It is in one go with Cubase..the Drone and midi track are at the same time added in Cubase
Now is coming the actual exporting of the VSti to Cubase ( relocating)..that is easy
Note: the Drone in Cubase has his own window ..with Playback mode on merged and the Online buton is lit (bright)
Ok let me relocate it.. DAW2 Cubase: 01(-empty-) to choose
Goes fast .. on the bottom of the inspector there is indicator and it shows only the the port is released, but transferring the Vsti i did not see like in the video tutorials with the indicator, what shows two level of information as i am correct.
The Vsti in SFE should be exported now ..and i can play the Synfire phrase to check this, but no sound.
How can see that the VSTi is exported into Cubase ?..the Drone window shows internal GM copy, private new arrangment.
It seems to not working and perhaps has it something to to with the virusscanner .. ?
I don't use a dedicated music computer as a pro, so maybe the virusscanner is who spoils the setup ?
Wed, 2012-10-31 - 20:42 Permalink
The Vsti in SFE should be exported now ..and i can play the Synfire phrase to check this, but no sound.
The track in Cubase might need to be armed for recording (or: monitoring), or selected into focus, in order to hear the notes that are played "live" while the Cubase transport is stopped. Unlike the Audio Engine, Synfire has no control over these routings inside the DAW. You must select and arm the tracks manually.
How can see that the VSTi is exported into Cubase ?
Open the Drone editor in Cubase. Synfire can not do that, because a VST can not ask its host to open itself (the Audio Engine can). That is why the "Plug-in Editor" button is disabled for Drones and enabled for Engine ports.
Wed, 2012-10-31 - 21:51 Permalink
Thanks
Yes, the focus of the track.. i selected the Midi track and put the monitor button on and record button and tried a combination of them..
I disabled the midi in for the keyboard in SFE and use the nanokey 2 keyboard midi in for Cubase..the event received indicator is flickering by pressing the keyboard ..but no sound
( Prior this i selected the port DAW and node engine port and select the midi in the midi tab also, suddenly there was a sound..could not ascertain where the sound was coming from , but it disappear also )
I assume that the Drone editor in Cubase is the button from the Drone window in Cubase?
The editor button is not burning..and don't react on a mouseclick.
Ok the logic from the Plug-in Editor" button i understand .
That's it.. and i use a virus scanner norton and this can exclude a item from scanning .
So the Halion 4 Vsti is not showing up in Cubase by clicking on the editor button..
I can use midi monitor in Cubase ?
Wed, 2012-10-31 - 22:02 Permalink
Some VST can not load into a Drone, if they have more than 32 or so outputs (dont remember exactly where the limit was). Try loading the VST from the Drone's user interface directly. It should give an error message, if this is the case.
Wed, 2012-10-31 - 22:33 Permalink
Synfire is VST 2.4.2. If the Engine can load it, the Drone can also load it.
The limit of output channels is 32. VST with more than 32 outputs (= 16 stereo) can not load.
Thu, 2012-11-01 - 00:13 Permalink
I try to figure out if the Drone is capable to host the Halion 4 VSti , because it is limited to 32 outputs.
If it can be loaded in SFE than i should be possible to loaded also in the Drone..that is the assumption
It is not working the relocate feature, than there is another problem what stay in the way.
By the way i remember it me now: i did a installation by hand of the Halion Vsti into the Drone and it works normal
Something goes wrong with the relocate function than.
Thu, 2012-11-01 - 00:46 Permalink
I made earlier a setup with SFE and Cubase and a Drone and it works..Synfire plays his phrase in Cubase
But the Drone is not in a midi channel assigned.. i loaded Halion 4 in a instrument track in Cubase with a midi input routing: 1- cognitoneDrone- midi out
The Editor button is here still not working from the drone window , but i can open the Drone with the standard Cubase editor button
Can this be fixed by Cognitone .. maybe ?
How about complexity?.. at the same time a strong point for HN2/Synfire all those possible setups, but too difficult for the mass to handle, but i am biased because my setups go painful.. still able to laugh about it again
Thu, 2012-11-01 - 02:26 Permalink
If you have a vst in a drone you have to access the vst display via the editor button in the drone. You can't use the editor button in synfire, this only works if the vst in in the engine.
Mind you if you are using a midi drone you don't have anything to edit, the halion will be just as if there was no synfire except where it gets its midi.
Ave you now got everything working? With halion in a drone but not as a midi drone?
Thu, 2012-11-01 - 09:43 Permalink
Janamdo,
Sorry I thought you had got it working with halion in a drone with the drone in cubase, but the drone not set as a midi drone (with the check box 'midi drone' in synfires instrument page unticked). That would be the best option if it works as it gives th best latency handling. There should be no reason, or at least i cant think of a reason, why that can't work if it works in the engine.
Thu, 2012-11-01 - 09:53 Permalink
Ofcourse i can use Halion 4 by the 32 and 64 bit engine in SFE.
That's great. The recommended workflow is to use the Engine for prototyping anyway. It is a small DAW that can be controlled by Synfire completely and therefore integrates smoothly and without hassle.
I know you want to substitute the missing articulations in Express and use Expression Maps in Cubase instead. I don't think that will work in the long term. In Synfire, you will want to move parts around and change figures a lot. That's what prototyping is all about. How will you keep your Expression Maps data in sync with your alyways changing composition?
Go with the Engine and put Cubase aside until your composition has evolved. Add Expressions later after you exported to Cubase. This will get you going and finally make some music.
Thu, 2012-11-01 - 09:54 Permalink
Let's look if this going to work..
Not working too.
I got Halion 4 working as Drone by hand installing ( i thought as midi drone ticked in the check box.. if possible? ).. i must check this.
Note: the drone seems to be have also 2 configurations with a Vsti ( as Midi drone or not ).. to complicate things more..
If Halion 4 is here the bad guy here why not using a another Vsti try to relocate a Vsti from SF
Thu, 2012-11-01 - 10:09 Permalink
Thanks!
I realized myself at forehand that articulations handling with SFE and Cubase could not give a good workflow( i don't have high expectatation from it at forehand ) ..so i was never focussed on it.
It was only for me this setup for experimenting try things out how the interaction works out ..
How will you keep your Expression Maps data in sync with your alyways changing composition?
That i realized myself too..
I can bring in the Midi from SFE into Cubase and than add the articulation with the expressionmap, but than the relocate function comes in play ( that is why i am focussed to do this setup)..and it seems to be not working for Halion 4
Than by hand ?..but the relocate function in SFE, has also something to do with handy import of midi from SFE into Cubase?
Thu, 2012-11-01 - 15:35 Permalink
I added a video at the WIKI which shows from scratch how to relocate a VSTi from an Engine to a drone at Cubase.
Note: After my recent upgrade to Windows 8 my sound setup has still issues. The screen capture software did only record the sound from the engine but not the sound from the drone at Cubase. But that's only an issue at the video. In reality also the sound from the drone was there. The microphone also don't work, so there are no comments at the video. I will update the video when I have resolved this issues.
Thu, 2012-11-01 - 16:42 Permalink
I made custom device description for Halion 4 with one sound and relocated this to Cubase 6.5..but it now work
- now i gonna make a custom device description for a Monophonic Vsti synth and try this to "relocate to Cubase--if this not gonna work..than as last try a camel Vsti.
Might this all not work with "relocate" than it has something to do with Cubase 6.5 ?
This "relocate"function must be gonna work on Cubase 6.5 no exception.
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I made the Vsti MUX synth with a custom device description and relocate it to Cubase -> now i got a message "MUX has to many input/output channels" in the drone window in Cubase
This error message i did not get ( Halion has a max of 32 outputs what's ok) with the Halion 4 Vsti when i try to relocate this with with a Gm device description and also not for one sound device setup Halion 4
How many input/output has the MUX synth than? ..it is modulair synthesizer ..i can extent the outputs there
Question for mulab
Now i go to the Camel Vsti..
Thu, 2012-11-01 - 16:43 Permalink
Hi blacksun
Sorry I thought you had got it working with halion in a drone with the drone in cubase, but the drone not set as a midi drone (with the check box 'midi drone' in synfires instrument page unticked). That would be the best option if it works as it gives th best latency handling. There should be no reason, or at least i cant think of a reason, why that can't work if it works in the engine.
So this setup ( see pic ) is not the good one than?.. must only be unticked in the instrument inspector of SFE ?
How about exporting midi files ..that comes up now..if the relocate function is malfunctioning
Problem is, when i do want to check if Cubase is not capable for the "relocate" function from SFE that i cannot choose a VSTi with a multiitimbral device description .. perhaps i can use Camel Vsti as test Vsti
Other try is to use a not timbral Vsti synth already loaded in SFE, but than i must first make a "custom device" setup in SFE otherwise the relocate function is also not working ( the relocate function can only be used together with a custom device description i think .. is this stated as constraint in the manual from SFP/E ? .. or if this surmise ( Prado ! ) of my ..wrong ?
But than i must for the Plug-in make a new custom device description? (it is monophonic )..the device description button in the Instrument inspector came with a message to give a name on this new device description, but this is not the place to make a device description..it must be done in the Audio@midi screen from the global setup ?
Am i in the good direction ..or lost ..? ( keep on laughing :))
Thu, 2012-11-01 - 19:33 Permalink
Thanks very much Jurgen!
Saves my a lot of time to test out .
I see the problem now ... with the soundcategory and name.. i give it a soundcategory ( that is stressed out to do that) but no name probably.
This is a tricky mistake to make and must be made more userfriendly by Cognitone ... with a message that allocation not is possible if the 2 soundparameters are not filled in.
I try it out now ..
It seems to be not working for Halion 4 ( Halion Sonic has 16 outputs ) and i used in my earlier attempts a GM device template also and there the soundcategory and name were filled in
Now i did for one sound ..and no Halion 4 relocate too
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I hope this can be fixed by Cognitone , because Halion 4/Cubase is a strong combination
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The idea to be not using this relocate functionality for Halion 4 makes me not happy.
Thu, 2012-11-01 - 22:24 Permalink
Hi janamdo
I'm still unclear if you managed to get the following to work so to help me understand where the problem is can you try the following and report what works and what doesn't?
Load synfire
Load cubase
Do what ever you need to do in cubase to create an empty project
Do what ever you need to to get rewire sync working in cubase
Put a cognitone drone in cubase on a midi track
Select a track in synfire and go to the instrument tab
Select plugin as the instrument type
Drop down the node engine drop down and select the daw1 empty port... It's name will differ depending on the daw and stuff
Confirm you want to take over the port for exclusive use
Click the button to load the plug in and select halion
As indicated, allocate a category from the drop down list and enter a suitable name for the sound
Whe you hit return or tab away from ten name the box next to the drop down where you selected plugin as the type should turn green
Switch to cubase
Bring up the cognitone drone interface and click editor
That should display the halion interface but in a drone window, select the patch you want to use
Switch back to synfire and add some notes into the track in synfire
Press play
Do you get sound?
Come back with what worked and what failed then we can work from there
Thu, 2012-11-01 - 23:33 Permalink
That is nice of you..to try me helping out here
Do what ever you need to to get rewire sync working in cubase
External synchronization in SFE : Ticked Rewire transport Sync + ticked checkbox Rewire Tempo
Select plugin as the instrument type
I must than load first the Plugin Halion 4 before i can choose the DAW port : daw1 empty port
Our order differ ? ----> WAIT !!
Ok i go wrong with the port knob and the jump menu ( tricky ) .. i used the wheel ... but in my setup i used the Load plug-in and loaded the Vst Halion and than choose the DAW Cubase driver
We are now going the other way around ! ( this is asking for trouble this whole menu )..haha
As indicated, allocate a category from the drop down list and enter a suitable name for the sound
i am stuck now , because i don't know what sound i have in the VSti Halion 4 selected
Thu, 2012-11-01 - 23:40 Permalink
I think if you do not select the daw drone as the target first it will load the drone into the wrong place....
But my steps above are just to ensure that you an get synfire to play halion when halion s loaded in a drone in cubase. Once we know that works we can the start to understand why you can't relocate from the engine to the drone.
Can you confirm those steps above are producing sound?
As to choosing a category... It is up to you... If you want to use a piano type sound select the piano category... It's just to tell synfire the sort of sound the plugin s going to play. Eventually you can create a device definition and pick the exact sound but for now just pick a category say piano.
When you switch to cubase and click the editor button you can then load the piano patch into halion.