Posted
Can you give the update price from HN2 to Synfire Express?
Sun, 2012-09-30 - 15:52 Permalink
I am looking at the comparison table for Synfire Express
Some features are unknown :
- structure nested?
- inheritance : 2 levels ..this means musical?
Perhaps it is a good idea to explain all these terms on the comparison table ( otherwise there is nothing to compare as i don't know what to compare :? ) : for instance Tempo Chances : static for Synfire express and continous for Synfire pro . i don't know what this mean
Note:
I am not happy with only 16 midi channels, because the scoop of composing is greater than HN2
Take for example electronic composing,more than 16 midi channels is often the case
The Halion 4 what i own has 64 midi channels default.
Also i want more classical composing and in Synfire Express i can first make a classical composition without keyswichting and later move to cubase.
I think 36 midi channels is more attractive to use for new users like me or even 64
So i am waiting for now to buy Synfire express and try first also a demo version
Maybe that there comes in the future more midi channels for Synfire Evxpress ?
Sun, 2012-09-30 - 17:18 Permalink
It is 16 instruments, not MIDI channels. Ports and channels that can be addressed are unlimited.
If you want to compose for orchestra with more than 16 instruments, you have to be really talented and ambitioned. That's by far no longer entry level.
You are right, the features should be explained better on the chart.
Sun, 2012-09-30 - 18:07 Permalink
Ok, 1 midi port = 16 midi channels..so i can assign to a first midi port 16 instruments.
Than i add a second midi port with again 16 midi channels..so i can assign again 16 instruments
Now, i do have 32 instruments to use in Synfire Express..is that correct?
Well, if i can set my first steps on the road to try to master classical composing in Synfire Express..why not.
But for that it need entrance to articulated sounds..i am wondering if can get access to all the articulated sound in Halion 4 ?
Is there a workaround for that..?
When there is a demo version to use ?
Sun, 2012-09-30 - 18:15 Permalink
If you want to compose for orchestra with more than 16 instruments, you have to be really talented and ambitioned. That's by far no longer entry level.
I would say just the same thing, 16 instruments is absolutely sufficient for most purposes. Even at my compositions for orchestra I never came to 16 instruments. Janamdo seems to have really big plans... ;)
What I miss is an offer for additional licenses for existing users. When I am on the way, I'm reluctant to take my Ilok with me. There are several licenses stored there and I always have to guard it like priceless crown jewels. An additional license (could also be a SF Express license) at a reasonable price, which I could store on a separate on-the-go-Ilok would be great. How about that, are there any such offers?
Sun, 2012-09-30 - 18:15 Permalink
You have a maximum of 16 instruments (phrases) in your containers. It is not relevant which ports or channels these use.
The current demo has both editions to select from.
Sun, 2012-09-30 - 19:16 Permalink
I am not modest on this point ;)
I do see a lot of scores what surpasses 16 instruments
------ quote (cannot make them at the moment ?) ------------------------------
You have a maximum of 16 instruments (phrases) in your containers. It is not relevant which ports or channels these use.
The current demo has both editions to select from.
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Is synfire Pro there are 250 instruments per container ..so i don't see why in Synfire Express there can be at least 64 instruments ( i pay half price of Synfire Pro ..haha)
Sun, 2012-09-30 - 19:22 Permalink
I do see a lot of scores what surpasses 16 instruments
Yes of course there exist orchestral scores with more than 16 instruments. But that does not mean that you need so many instruments for music prototyping with Synfire.
In scores usually every instrument has it's own staff. If you have two or three clarients then every clarinet has it's own staff. But for prototyping a composition with Synfire it is much more handy to summarize all clarinets in one instrument. Same thing with the first and the second violins. In many cases you can use one instrument for them in Synfire instead of two. This way you have a much better overview over your composition and 16 instruments are sufficient then. Later, after the export into a DAW or a notation editor, you still can distribute the instruments to the staves.
Sun, 2012-09-30 - 20:18 Permalink
Well to simplify the Violin 1 and violin 2 to one Violin ?..they have their own role in the orchestra
Doubling and Counterpoint is common practice in orchestral composing.
It seems to me that when you experimenting that the number of instruments exceed quickly 16 instruments
Also for electronic music is do see scores with much more than 16 instruments
Not only the classical , but also the electronic composing can use a lot of instruments
I do want to use freely add another instrument for experimenting in the composition and not using alone GM sounds
But Synfire Express is crippled , because it has no keyswitch feature ..in my opinion ..not good
I am not convinced of this version of Synfire Pro.
Sun, 2012-09-30 - 20:56 Permalink
@jan: Synfire Express is not "crippled". That's absurd.
In all of my recent examples and almost every second composition I am working on, not only for testing but also for my personal enjoyment, I did not need more than 4 - 10 instruments. All these scores could be completed using Express with no problems. Even the official Cognitone jingle is among them.
Express is an entry-level edition. The majority of users that do songwriting and dance music would probably never need to go pro. Those who understand and appreciate the powerful pro features can upgrade at any time.
If you want orchestral arrangements with that many instruments and articulations, you are definitely looking at the pro league.
Than i don't understand not how you set this up
Use multiple melodic lines in the same figure.
Sun, 2012-09-30 - 21:43 Permalink
Ok, the number of instrument should be sufficient to do some orchestral composing, but i can't see if it is a easy workflow.
It seems there is nothing for keyswitching and the meager number of 16 instruments for electronic music to use also ( while Synfire Pro has 260 ! )
I got Halion 4 with fantastic articulated sounds to use, but in Synfire Express it has no use
Well i try the demo ..
Mon, 2012-10-01 - 15:11 Permalink
The old iLok will still be working for the current version, but sooner or later, you will need the new one.
Tue, 2012-10-02 - 09:05 Permalink
Honestly .. i like to see support for articulated sounds in Synfire Express and yes more instruments ( synfire pro has 260 ) and Synfire express only 10
So my moaning has some ground...
I use also Cubase 6.5 and there are some nice articulared sounds there ..not only classical.
The articulation system (vst expression2) of cubase works also there with the keyeditor..controlling is not only playing live the articulated sounds with a keyswitch..although this is the present situation in Synfire ?
For Synfire express a live keyswitching feature and for Synfire pro a live keyswich feature+ a keyswich editor ( like in Cubase 6.5 in the key editor )
The song becomes more lively with articulated sounds.
Tue, 2012-10-02 - 09:27 Permalink
Spending time on something that is pretty much limited to cubase does not make a lot of business sense when other things can be addressed that has a wider audience and therefore bigger demand. It's not just cognitone that thinks that way, most other vendors don't support note expression yet either (not the way cubase does). I would love to see something like this in ableton too as my controller of choice (eigenharps) supports it but I don't use cubase.
Cognitone did start down the route of developing standard keyswitches that would enable figures with keyswitches to work independent of the instrument but I haven't see anything come out of that work stream yet. This seems a better way to go as it would be useful to everyone not just cubase users.
Tue, 2012-10-02 - 11:08 Permalink
Ofcourse make it general in use.(that's always the underlying principle for Cognitone..because it generates more sales ).adding a articulation editor can be general in use like in Cubase as example ..or not?
If you like note expression..than probably you must going to use cubase..or wait.
Tue, 2012-10-02 - 12:16 Permalink
You mean 16 instruments in Synfire Express.
And about the other features that you would like to see in Synfire, I don't think that the main aim of Cognitone right now is to replace daws, rather to enhance them. You can always use your daw to refine what you compose with Synfire or HN.
Who knows what the furture may bring, they are extremely ambitious developers.
Tue, 2012-10-02 - 21:13 Permalink
Honestly .. i like to see support for articulated sounds in Synfire Express
When you run Synfire synched to Cubase (via Rewire), then you have the possibilty to create a setup where Cubase controls the articulation keyswitches while Synfire plays the music. In this way, you can enter the musical phrases into the phrase editor of Synfire and the articulations into the the articulation lanes of Cubase.
In this video, I demonstrate that:
This method will work also with Synfire Express since the articulation control features which are available at Synfire Pro are not used here.
Tue, 2012-10-02 - 22:36 Permalink
Thanks Juergen!
The video shows it clear and hopefully has Synfire Express the same conditions as Synfire Pro for communication with Cubase, because Synfire Express is limited in use.
That's interesting..how this can be working together.
Having in Synfire express under the phrase the articulation information from Cubase ( like in Cubase) , than it can be easier to follow what dynamics and articulation are involved. ( but that is too much asked it think, because it is only to use for cubase)
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Now comes orchestral arranging again in the picture .. do i have enough instruments than the existing 16 in Synfire Express.
Is it a trick to combine sounds in one phrase?
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Wed, 2012-10-03 - 15:25 Permalink
Are 16 instruments or tracks or staves enough? Judge for yourself:
[img](http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4041/4366148756_1485d5c701.jpg[/img)]
[url= Fifth Symphony (Score) -- Annotated Picture por [url=(http://www.flickr.com/people/daharyn/]L.M). Freer , en Flickr
[img](http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3005/3061838293_97bb726017.jpg[/img)]
[url=
por [url=(http://www.flickr.com/people/tmt_perchloric_acid/]minhtu), en Flickr
You can always find examples that use more instruments. But the point is, with 16 you don't have any excuse.